1) What is your opinion of this: My daughter has been in a Montessori school all of her school days. This is a tiny school, very green, very um...feelings oriented. (When you have an argument with another child, you present them with this plastic red rose to say you are sorry and then you hug....I know, I know...it is probably swell but frankly it makes me feel a bit gaggy every time I see it.) Her class is very small, but several grades (3-6) are in one room, so about 30 children. Liv is used to being a classroom with no desks, only working tables and a lot of work is done sitting on the ecologically heated floors. She has never learned in a classroom setting. She has learned in small groups or one on one and parts of her day are spent sharing her knowledge with younger children. Mentoring. They all do this from day one. She (and most of her classmates) score off the charts in standardized tests.
But, her school only goes up to 6th grade. Which she is in.
So, we have spent the last year touring junior highs. We went to our neighborhood public school and I was less than impressed. Some of the public schools in our city are incredible, others not so much. Our school is in the not so much category. The classrooms seemed huge and out of the over ten teachers that I met, I only really liked one and she was a behavior disorder teacher....so Liv will not be in her classroom. Liv wasn't impressed either.
We went to the private school just a block away from our home and we both detested it. I think it may have had something to do with the way the word PRIVILEGE screamed out everywhere. From the notice boards offering massage for toddlers to the child who came sauntering into the office while we were waiting to meet with the principal and sullenly asked the secretary to break a hundred dollar bill for him. His dad had given it to him FOR LUNCH MONEY. I looked around at the designer dressed girls who all seemed to be whispering rudely behind their hands at us and decided that I hated this school. Liv didn't like it either.
We toured two other Montessori schools that went through high school, but I did not think that Maria Montessori's core philosophy was adhered to, plus the schools were so far to the west of the city that it would be a 45 minute jaunt every day. Liv was disappointed in their science labs, so it was a no for her too.
At last we started touring parochial schools. I went in looking for problems. And found some. But, two of the schools seemed beautifully run and although the classes were large (32 in most classes), they looked like a clean, happy, safe place where a child could learn, albeit in a classroom setting, which Liv would have to adjust to. Liv was bowled over by one of the school's robotic labs and loved the math and music wings.
She settled on St. John Paul Elementary School (most parochial schools here go up to 8th grade.)
So, now...she has decided. And I am sort of unsure of this. A CATHOLIC SCHOOL? Where it is MANDATORY that she attend mass every Friday morning? And wear a uniform?
How does a girl with two mamas fit into this school? How can I? How can Bing? How can our family? And am I a hypocrite?
Liv and I have talked a lot about this. She maintains that she will approach the whole mass thing as a learning experience. ("I don't know much about Catholicism and this will be a good chance to learn, don't you think?")
I have told her about the Catholic church's stand on homosexuality on abortion. Liv rolled her eyes. Suggested that maybe it would take several families like ours to change some minds.
"Somebody has to go first and I am pretty sure we aren't the first family like ours to go to Catholic school, Mama!"
My pragmatic, practical daughter.
I have arranged a meeting with the principal (A PRIEST!) tomorrow. I am not sure how many cards to lay on this particular table. Liv has already been accepted, so that worry is over. But, they could rescind this. Liv thinks I should just be totally honest and let things play out.
What do you think and what do you think of this whole situation? Am I a hypocrite? Be honest? I wanna hear....
32 comments:
No... I don't think u are, but I think you should do as Liv says and just lay your cards on the table. If they decide to rescind then it was meant to be. We all know what Catholicism stands for and know what the possible results could be, but it is better than hiding it and trying to send Liv to such a school. THAT would be hypocritical...
Be honest. He might surprise you. And you'll save yourself the agony of trying to hide your wonderful family from them.
No, I don't think you're a hypocrite. My middle girl went to a catholic high school, and survived:)
What would your Da have said? And have you asked your sisters for advice/guidance? What did they say when you asked?
I'm a lurker here, but I read everything you write because I love the way you write. I was brought up Catholic, after a long traumatic process that began when I found out french kissing was a mortal sin! My son is gay, which would have horrified my mother if she'd lived to see it.
But things are different now:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/24/fashion/24Noticed.html?ref=fashion
I agree with Liv: be totally honest with the priest. After all, you don't want her to go in there with a cloud of secrecy hanging over her head. And besides, his reaction may pleasantly surprise you!
It doesn't sound to me like you are a hypocrite, just a concerned mother. However, you said yourself "she has decided" and as long as what she has decided is not hurting anyone it is your job to support her in it.
I think you should be honest with the principal. Backlash over the whole non-traditional family thing is almost a guarantee but that will be the same no matter where you go. Luckily (at least where I'm from) the younger generations seem to be becoming more liberal and accepting every year. I am sure Liv will find friends anywhere she goes, including in a catholic school.
For now just relax, attend the meeting, see how it goes.
Good luck!
Your daughter is wise beyond her years - just so she understands that all of you will need to have a back up plan in the event the acceptance is recinded. And it totally might be, if you just lay the cards on the table.
Other than that - for my money - she's spot on.
And the Catholic environment? Since the beginning of days, thinking people have been taking the best of faith based organizations for themselves and abandoning the rest. Cafeteria-style religion - if there is a god, he/she is fine with that.
I would check how the Catholic Church and Schools in your community have behaved toward gay issues in the past and if there are any incidents of them denying enrollment to children of gay parents.
A Catholic School in Boulder, Colorado denied enorollment to the children of a lesbian couple last year.
As a gay Catholic (I no longer practise or go), I know that the Catholic Church and the schools are very strict and rigid when it comes to the canon, beliefs and doctrine. Their intent is that the churches doctrine be taught and followed.
You're not a hypocrite - you're a MOM, who worries!
I think you should just wing it when you get there, and definitely be honest. You've raised a remarkable girl - don't worry about things that haven't even happened, yet.
(Also, my kid goes to Catholic school, and I'm not Catholic nor am I a fan of the religion, but for the most part, the school itself is good!)
Maria,
I am a Montessori elementary teacher. From my experience, children Liv's age do just fine adjusting to a classroom setting as long as there are not issues in play such as attention deficit, a learning difference, or immaturity. I have never in all my years had a parent come back to me and say that their child didn't adjust. Liv will probably be an outstanding role model for other children in her new school. If she wants to attend there, I would go ahead and try it out.
Frankly...I can't wait to hear how it goes with the priest.
I mean c'mon Maria - you ARE a sinner you know.
well i already wrote one comment here but i lost it, so if it shows up that's why. i had basically said that its important for liv to like and be comfortable in the school. also, find out what the policy is for her, will she have to be baptised, make her first communion, then confirmation? if so, then it wont just be a matter of attending mass on fridays, she will be required to study and commit to those beliefs. but the priest should go over all of that when you meet.
your daughter is very wise for her years, i agree you wont be the first gay family to attend a cathoilc school. but i do think you should be honest and lay it all out in your meeting, because if not, it will be hanging over your head and by being honest, as liv says, you can promote a positive example that gay families really arent different from other families...
why would you think you are being a hypocrite? because you are a mom who wants whats best for your child?
my sisters 3 kids went to St. Cecelia's, then the 2 boys went to prep, and lily is at duschene [cant spell today]. they have received a better education than my kids did in public school even though bellevue schools are well rated. one nephew hated prep so he went to central, and loved it there. he is in the national honor society, and was able to take classes at central that counted toward college credits. so he won a free ride to UNO this fall plus will be entering as a sophomore.
you asked how could you and bing do the catholic thing, as two mama's? you do it the same way we all do. you just be yourselves and be her mama's.
wearing a uniform is not a big deal, and it solves the "what to wear" issue every morning.
there really is no right or wrong here, if down the line liv has any issues with the catholic thing, you can always place her somewhere else. the bottom line is she has to enjoy these years, she is so smart, you could probably place her anywhere and she would thrive..
good luck..
You're not a hypocrite, you're just a worried mama who raised a wise little child. I've found that the rank and file folk of most religious groups are way more accepting that their official teachings would indicate.
Lay everything out on the table. If the priest freaks, give him your most winning smile. And uniforms do make school shopping a cinch.
You are not a hypocrite, and Liv is being very wise. Catholic schools offer some of the best education available, and large class sizes are not a big deal, because the discipline is excellent. You may have to hold your nose from time to time; but think if how often you hold your nose at life in general?
Whoops! The above comment was by Kate, not signed in.
I was educated through the catholic school system and i'm a committed agnostic. If you are up to it go and have a meeting with the parish priest and see where he stands on all your concerns - if he's 'negative', then it may not be for you. Remember that most parochial systems are there to Save our Souls' and love getting a shot at sinners like us ... LOL! So they might see you two as a challenge!
I don't think you're being hypocritical. It seems to me that you have done your research regarding the best school for Liv and you've found one, one that just happens to be a Catholic school. If she's willing to be open-minded regarding mass, good for her. Hopefully they will all be as open-minded regarding her family!
I wouldn't lay all your cards out... strategically it puts HIM (i mean the priest, not the big "Him" upstairs! ;-) or whatever HIM seems to stand for in Catholic... I dk... I'm not catholic or christian!)... he might be super tolerant guy... he might wish the church approved of homosexuality, birth control, marriage for priests and who knows what else. but it doesn't. so i wouldn't lead with that.
but... damn... the more I think about this... the more I concerned about Liv. what does she say or not say? how do you encourage her to handle this?
this will demands pondering, i realize... as you are doing... asking for the thoughts and opinions of others... and mulling on it.
wow... a tough one, Maria!
i might ask my sis her thoughts on this this one. she's a two mom family... five year old son, public school... different situation but she is friends with many two mom and two dad families... she might have good thoughts. most of my two mom or two dad or one lesbian mom or whatever friends here all send their kids to my daughter's school - total PC bubble inside total PC bubbletwon (SF)... we are the PC bubble INSIDE the PC bubble so you can only imagine how PC it is all is! (tho' we don't have the plastic roses! ;-) and yeah, i'd be smirking, too!)
i'll be interested to hear what other folks think...
ZC
Liv has spoken. Be honest. Be yourself . Be hopeful that the school will put the needs and the happiness of it's students at the top of the list and allow dogma to take a backseat. Be prepared to let the small stuff go. If Liv is happy, all will be right with the world.
Maria, I really don't know much about private schools or even Catholicism. BUT, I have a wonderful blog friend Mark...he and his partner are involved with the Catholic church AND their kids attend school there too. (I think)
Here is his blog: http://mysimplelife-m.blogspot.com/
You can ask him anything...he is wonderful, kind and NOT shy. I think his email is there somewhere...or leave him a comment.
xo
Suz
Oh, Maria. I've been down this path with my twin boys.
I am a Spiritualist minister and a professional medium, and I am very "out" about it, which often draws lots of strange looks from people when they find out what I do. I don't force my beliefs on anyone, and I treat people with respect no matter what. But I also don't believe in lying or hiding things. I was born and raised Catholic, and I attended 12 years of Catholic school, as did my husband, who now considers himself an agnostic. We decided we would not baptize our children in any religion, and we took a lot of heat for this, especially from my father. But I refuse to be hypocritical about religion.
In our neighborhood, the public school was out of the question. It had many, many problems, including high teacher and faculty turnover, which, as a former teacher myself, is never a good sign. Our boys went to Montessori pre-school, but the only Montessori option for grade school was simply not do-able in our budget. We finally found a private Episcopal school that we loved, and our boys went there from kindergarten through 8th grade.
Last year, we had to make a decision about high school. Again, our public school did not seem to be a good fit for our boys. Although it's not a bad school, it's HUGE, considering that our boys had 22 kids in their entire grade level. Because my husband and I both went to Catholic high schools, we looked at these as options and settled on a smaller school in a more urban neighborhood. It is a good fit for our boys because of the social and academic scenes, and because, quite frankly, finances are a huge issue for us, and one of our sons won a scholarship.
I have reconciled myself to sending my boys to Catholic school. I am no longer Catholic because of the stances of the Church on issues like homosexuality and abortion, too--I am a liberal, and I believe Creator is about love, not rules. But I also know, having been raised Catholic and having attended Catholic schools, that not all schools are as conservative as they perhaps appear to be.
My feeling is that honesty is always the best policy. In your meeting with the priest/principal, I think you should voice your concerns. Tell him how much Liv likes the school. I'm sure you know that there are very conservative priests out there, and there are some very progressive ones. Hopefully, this one is in the latter category. So far, I have not had this issue at my boys' new Catholic high school. I am keeping my mouth shut about my profession, and so far, it's not been a problem. Then again, I don't know hardly anyone at the school. It's a lot different in high school than grade school, apparently.
Good luck, dear. I hope it all works out for you!
I have another set of friends that just went through this same dilemma (one of them reads and comments here from time to time) with their son.
If you're okay with it and Liv is okay with it, then there shouldn't be a problem. I wouldn't give them any more information than they need. Your family situation is absolutely no one's business but your own.
Aah, not al Catholics are bad people, you know (although they've been hiding it well). At the very least, a Catholic school will provide Liv with a perspective that perhaps she is not as familiar with as with other perspectives, and judging from what you write, she'll be able to handle that. Also, any questions or doubts that may be raised at school she will bring to you and Bing, and you will guide her through the mess.
Christianity is widespread in the US, so I reckon it's good to have extensive knowledge of the phenomenon. I wouldn't be afraid of brainwashing or anything; religion is only dangerous in the hands and heads of people who are unwilling to think for themselves, and Liv isn't like that.
The uniform thing I would find immensely reassuring as a mother; no chance of my girl engaging in a who-beats-Britney competition with her classmates.
And think about it: a Catholic school with a solid science lab should be the ultimate contradiction in terms, so if the science lab is to Liv's liking, surely the school must have at least one foot placed firmly in the mortal soil!
Oh, and yeah, you should be honest to the principal about who you are. It would make life at school unnecessarily complicated for Liv if you weren't, and besides, hell, you are who you are! If a school can't deal with everyday American reality, it shouldn't be teaching in the first place, and if they rescind Liv's admission because of your homosexuality, at least you know it was the wrong place for her to be growing up anyway!
Having said that, I will admit that I can't wait for your account of the encounter with the principle... *chuckle*
Thanks for the opinions. K DOG, I felt your words. I went to catholic school until I graduated high school. AND I went to an all girl catholic high school, so I know exactly what a catholic education entails. THAT is precisely what worries me.
No, she does not have to covert to catholicism to go to this school, but she DOES have to attend weekly mass.
To be honest, I am terrified mostly not about the kids at school teasing her; Liv is sturdy and she is very adept at choosing worthy friends. I worry more about those friends' parents not allowing their children to associate with a child with two mothers. That would make my blood boil and my fists clench.
Plus, I just feel like it took me years to slough off my catholic coat and now....well...my daughter is going to be wearing one. It makes me feel off balance and worried.
This meeting will tell the tale. I will not lie but I will not push my agenda either. I will just tell the truth and hope the cards land correctly.
We shall see. We shall see.
Children in our schools all wear uniforms, so that those with plenty do not outshine those with less clothes. They are practical too, usually and give the children a sense of belonging, like footballers to a particular club??
You're not being hypocritical Maria if this is the most appropriate school for Liv in terms of what it has to offer; the fees are usually reasonable too. As for laying it all on the table, I wouldn't, yet. I'd talk about Liv's father a bit and say that Liv lives with you and a female friend (rather than partner) and leave it there. I wouldn't risk Liv's enrolment. It will be much harder for the school to kick her out (if that were their choice) once they have begun to know and love her. Besides, I think all Christians see their definition of sinners as a challenge and they would feel so sorry for Liv that they would feel compelled to "save" her from her fate!!!
I don't have much more to add to the comments above. I agree, don't "hide" anything from the principal, just lay it all out there. I had some reservations about sending my son to the private Catholic high school he attends because I'm no longer an active Catholic. His school accepts students of all denominations. They do have to take Theology every year, which actually is a good thing, in my opinion. They learn about all kinds of religions, not just Catholicism.
If I can be snarky for a moment - the school certainly doesn't care what denomination the person who writes the check is!!!
Where I live, Catholic high schools are fully funded, and as such, can be accessed by anyone, regardless of religious belief. That being said, they are known to be anti-gay. I think it depends on the school and the principal (or the priest). Perhaps you will be lucky and the priest will be like my brother. My brother has invited my partner and I to be part of his "solemn profession," which, as I understand it, is the last step before priesthood. So his lesbian witch sister and her lesbian Jewish partner are going to be openly and publicly acknowledged during mass at his church this weekend. I am still a bit weirded out....but I am so going to be there!
You are not a hypocrite because this is not about you. It's about Liv. I'm not saying "it's not about you" in a pejorative way either, I'm just saying it's not hypocritical on your part simply because it has nothing to do with you personally.
The parents of some of Liv's schoolmates may shun her because of you and Bing, but I bet you will be pleasantly surprised to find that many of them DO NOT do so. And, there may very well be other gay parents too. You never know. If Liv picked this school, it's quite possible that other children of gay parents have done the same.
In any case, it sounds to me like Liv is comfortable with the school and the school is a good fit for her academically. See how it works for this year. She can always go to another school next year if there are issues.
Sometimes we tend to over think things. I come from a Catholic background too so I know where you're coming from with that, but I say the focus here should be on the basics: is the school well-rounded academically and does Liv feel comfortable attending it? The answers to those questions are yes and yes so go with it for now.
Wow... many good thoughts. I'm embarassed to see most folks promoted honesty and i didn't. I know i have a "live in secret if need be" mentality. There was one line in your comment that made me feel that something in you feels unsettled... you donNt have that inner click of "yes... this is right" yet... maybe that is coming. Keep us posted!!
zc
Last year, a little girl got kicked out of parochial kindergarten or preschool because she had two mommies. That was in Omaha or Lincoln I believe. It was in the queer news awhile. The courts ruled against the couple.
If that's the official attitude towards the wee ones you may have problems ahead. Try it and see, Liv has probably already come up against this, but you might keep it in mind.
I've been away from blogging for a few days and missed this. Like you, I have always insisted on honesty and let it fall where it would, BUT where my children are concerned, would hesitate to do anything that could hurt them or their chances at a good education. It's a real quandary, Maria.
Mostly, my idealism rules me, ie you are not only not doing anything "wrong," but you have provided a healthier, happier home life for your child than most people with more conventional arrangements. I would like to believe the world is changing toward acceptance of all, as it should, but I also fear that it is not changing fast enough and that the mean-spirited elements are still in charge. A Catholic school is particularly sticky, as we all know. I think that I would have to go with what I consider the greater truth, that Liv is a bright, beautiful and gifted young girl who should be treated with respect and kindness unsullied by anyone's prejudices. And yet, a part of me balks at choosing deception when I know that nothing "bad" is being hidden. I think to sum up this rambling comment, I have great faith in you and Bing, Liv and Tinton, but less faith in strangers with preconceived notions. And while I love Liv's willingness to be a pioneer of sorts, out of her love for you and the confidence you have all instilled in her, I would also hate to see her treated as an "other" when her energy should all go into learning and making friends. Sorry this is so long, but I really do care about all of you as friends. (And your little dog, too.)
Lay your cards on the table and give full disclosure. Better to face rejection now than later when it inevitably comes out that Liv has two Moms and gets expelled.
I'm thinking the school may surprise you. I'm hopeful like that.
The important thing is that Liv feel good about where she's going to school. Don't worry about the rest. I'm glad you have choices, limited as they are. Here where I live it's bad public schools or Jerry Falwell's schools. My daughter was a chronic truant because she hated school so much. I had to home school to keep us in compliance with the law.
Middle school and high school are a really hard time for girls. I hope you have an easy time with Liv.
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